Remember how I posted a few weeks back, about how being in a corp is like being in a RL relationship?
Well, this is my scenario at the moment:
I fall in love with my new corp, Mad Bombers. Everything seems peachy. I spend a week moving lots of my stuff to my new home in 0.0. I make bookmarks everywhere, I get to know the neighbours, I sign up to the Mad Bombers forum and even post my RL pic there. I'm thinking, yeah this is going to be a very long-term relationship!
And then I find out that my new partner is a heroin addict.
And by heroin I mean FALCONS.
I couldn't believe it. I saw them using falcons in some of our random gangs and at first I thought, oh it's ok they're just using a few falcons for fun here and there, no big deal. Surely it's not a habit. Everyone dabbles in ECM every now and then right?
Then serious warning signs started showing. Someone posted a Falcon ship fitting thread in the forums, and then I see this:
Check the 5th most ship used in kills. FALCONS.
I panic. What could this mean? Would you leave someone you love because of a drug addiction? Or would you stay there and help them overcome it, and if they can't then just accept and love them and stay with them anyways?
Well, I pretty much did the worst possible thing I could do so early in the relationship. I posted my views on the corp forums.
Of course, I happened to pick a particularly bad day to try the INTERVENTION, as I was feeling rather emotional, edgy, and in a trolling mood.
It started off as a post in the offensive falcon ship fitting thread, with a small rant about my disappointment in them and that I thought they were better than this (typical relationship manipulation crap). Then the forum discussion descended into outright e-peen waving (linking km's) and sarcastic thread derailments, while some members white-knighted me and others were FURIOUS and threatened to kick me from corp.
Ahhh... The first lover's tiff.
It all ended later in the day, with the offending posts/threads being deleted, and me sending an apology email to the senior members.
I don't want to start a fresh discussion/drama about FALCONS here, so I'll suffice to say I think they are the bane of solo (and small gang) pvp'ers in EVE, and wouldn't mind if ECM was completely deleted from the game. Most of the people I admire and look up to in EVE think the same way too.
The fact remains that I have made a commitment to my corp for now, and I have to accept them for who they are. It doesn't mean I need approve of it or to fly in a gang with falcons in it, but I'll live with it and still do my own thing and play the game how I want it.
I feel like I'm writing to an Agony Aunt for some advice here:
Anyone have any suggestions or care to share experiences on how to deal with a beloved Corp's destructive addictions?
Many thanks
Laedy
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0909/Luminus_Aardokay_-_Because_of_Falcon.mp3
ReplyDeleteLOL. Cheers for that, I'll hear this song in my head everytime I get falconed now!
ReplyDeletedont worry laedy. shiroi and i still HATE falcons :D.
ReplyDeleteyou have our support in these dark times laedy
ReplyDeleteUnderstanding drug addiction
---
Addiction is a complex disorder characterized by compulsive drug use. People who are addicted feel an overwhelming, uncontrollable need for drugs or alcohol, even in the face of negative consequences. This self-destructive behavior can be hard to understand. Why continue doing something that’s hurting you? Why is it so hard to stop?
This is good advice, thank you for your support.
ReplyDelete+rep
ReplyDeleteGenos invading poor Laedy's blog
ReplyDeletedo not fear Laedy, you can help them, I suggest when in gang/local with any poor falcon addicted citizans IN CORP OR OTHERWISE AS U MUST HALP UR COMMUNITY. you continuously paste
ReplyDeleteFALCAN!!! (insert adddicts name) FALCAN!!!!
FALCAN!FALCAN!FALCAN!
in local 100 times. i call the technique LADY SHANIQUAS LOCAL ECCM TECHNIQUE 4 HELPING REFORM PEOPLE WAT IZ ADDICTED TO FALCANZ
Brilliant
ReplyDeleteI agree that ECM is a bit overpowered compared to the rest of EWAR. But I also think it's really quite a small issue for corp drama.
ReplyDeleteIt's less like heroin and more like a SO who occasionally drinks some foul-smelling beer.
Would you dump someone for drinking Budweiser, really?
Yes, budweiser is utter crap.
ReplyDeleteEmbrace the Falcon.
ReplyDeleteBecome the Falcon.
Just like many ships I've trained for, Falcons have been nerfed pretty seriously and I've stopped using a Falcon alt while dualboxing because flying this ECM boat now requires 100% attention.
ReplyDeleteStill, everyone who uses them (or Rooks/Scorpions) against me is a giant faggot, of course.
Honestly, you should have told them of the glories of the laser falcon.
ReplyDeletebecause ecm is made marginally straight by the presence of unbonused lasers.
oh and because they're in laser range to use multispec ecm
and maybe incase they miss a jam to fit some tank
oh and a point, plus mwd to maintain range
suddenly addiction because super fun cloakly death squad of laser awesome with the off chance of people shoosting back
!
In Python, we encourage these bad habits. Yeah, Falcons are a scourge, but we're not gonna say no to a Falcon, or two Falcons, or, god forbid, three. Everyone else uses them (or mega-blobs; Falcons are great for evening the odds), so we're just shooting ourselves in the foot if we never touch the Falcon.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, if all ECM was deleted from the game, I wouldn't shed any tears.
Besides, we're the assholes who use cloaks in AF tournaments. Python 101: If it's cheap and lame, we will do it. :P
Get over it, Laedy. You use a falcon alt all the time anyway. All you 'so called' solo PVPers do nothing but use falcon alts and prolly even carrier alts to kill your prey with.
ReplyDeleteIt disgusts me and is the reason I will NEVER pvp. Lemme stick to markets, thanks. That's a rush.
Dayumn. I got called out =S
ReplyDeleteI'm Laedy's falcon alt.
ReplyDeletei thought i was laedy's falcan alt???
ReplyDeleteI thought Laedy WAS a Falcon alt
ReplyDeleteFriendly fire is always an option.
ReplyDeleteFalcons are generally not a good force multiplier anyway, they're good at enforcing low risk pvp though, the only situations where ECM spam is actually a good force multiplier is in very small gangs / dual boxing alt ( unless you're in one of those scrubby BS fleets trying to fight a DarkSide. gang with 20 scorps with specific jammers), but in those cases the fight is generally just a complete gank / fight doesn't happen, at least the tears you get is good though
ReplyDeleteA lot of corps that uses falcons on a daily basis do it so their pvp is more profitable, like merc corps, but a lot of those do get a bad reputation as PVPers as they don't perform as well in high risk situations ( Gis, Noir, ghost campers etc. )
It's perfectly fine if you want to play it that way, it's your choice, but it wont make you any better, if you want a good force multiplier but still subject your self to risk just use implants/links/machs/logis/supers
FALCANZ, as Officah Lady S did state, are a sort of iwin buttan in small gangs. In larger gangs they tend to be TARGET NUMBA WUN, which helps limit their use a bit, thankfully.
ReplyDeleteAlso, as Lady S said, local can be a wonderful tool in the right hands. Such a shame it's usually used by juvenile delinquents to express their rebellion against society. I once fought off a Bane camp on the Osso-Amamake gate PURELY WITH WORDS. I can't post in polite company what imagery they used to reply to me, but none the less, it worked.
Sorry for the derail.
-Bomberlocks
I hate Falcons with a passion. They're useless in >3 people engagements as they can't jam someone reliably then, but when flying Solo it's damn near Permajam.
ReplyDeleteFought a Raven, Tengu and Drake in my Machariel in a WH where they brought in a Falcon and I had to get out with no kills because of lol-Permajam Syndrome.
Tl;dr
Fuck Falcons (except Brawling ones, those are cool)
pfft, no apology for hating falcons. Falcons are the cancer of small gang PvP and I think they should be removed from the game entirely. Anyone who relies on them is a turd.
ReplyDeleteA turd.
hehe can't just move in with new partner and start to move around furniture.. :)
ReplyDelete..although sometimes that works, just have to watch out not to slip off the edge.
I've trolled back in kb comments in coven soon after joining them.. Not sure if it was 100% my work, but I like to feel that way.
Also it's not that bad, Ishtar is higher..
Gallente for lyfe! \o/
o/
Oguras
Was a fun read laedy, even as semi disonorable falcon pilot :P
ReplyDeleteNext week if your around im sure i can FC an ecmless pro gang. These relationships are all about compromise after all ^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypZT4lQHoK8
ReplyDeleteThis is why Falcons are awesome, because TV shows like this are awesome...no wait...ok ignore everything here...oh god look at that intro...oh god..I need a breathe mint, I was just sick, can anybody give me a mint please..oh god that intro..mint...must have a mint
This is quite interesting to me, as I am an ECM pilot. I don't see why any one role should be deleted, simply because it is effective. As you are all saying, they are effective in small gang. But how does that necessitate their removal? I ask simply out of curiosity, not to antagonize. I know some is in jest, but is it only because you hate being jammed?
ReplyDeleteFeel free to pop over so I don't clog your wall. :)
www.progressionshorizon.blogspot.com
@ Memoocan. It's a fair question, and considering you're in EVE University it's understandable that you don't understand where I'm coming from.
ReplyDeleteI don't see a single killmail on where you have ever flown solo. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
If you really want to know why people hate falcons and ECM so much, go grab a suitable ship for soloing and try going alone everyday for at least 2 weeks (or as much as you can). Then come back and let us know your experiences.
I didn't mean for that to sound harsh btw, so sorry if it did. Nice blog btw, reading it now.
ReplyDeleteWhen you have the Falcon as an option it is hard to control yourself/corp not to use, it's a bad habit and untill January i was happy to use it in gangs.
ReplyDeleteHowever the change came when i started solo-ing again and saw the other perspective, fights that were interesting, ruined by ECM.
It's not that the Falcon itself is OP, the entire ECM system is fucked up, with some ships being even more fucked up than others - BB/Kitsune are much worse from that perspective than the Falcon.
+rep, this one was pretty hilarious.
ReplyDeleteWow, nice post and comments. Like every relationship the one between Eve and the ECM boat is one built on love and hate. Two sides of a coin and which side are you on that day. I hate Falcons when they jam me and it's nice having them there when you need them. Personally, on the rare times I fly a ECM boat, I use the Rook. At least it isn't sneaky, it has a tank and I can jam AND and some dps to the fight. I feel better about myself in a Rook.
ReplyDeleteWhen I joined Eve I immediately started to specialize in ECM and other EWar. I really enjoy it and have spent a lot of time and skill points in this area.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I love EWar, and ECM in particular, I can see how it can really hinder combat. Too many people have a cloaky Falcon alt, and that can really cause an engagement to become a non-engagement. Who wants to fight when they know they'll be jammed the whole time?
That said, I very rarely ever hear someone complain about the Griffin, Blackbird, Kitsune, Scorpion, or even the Rook. It's the Falcon that really seems to be the thorn in peoples' sides.
Even though I love ECM and flying ECM ships, I would NOT be unhappy if the Falcon were given a bit of a nerf.
What about the Arazu/Lachesis, does that fall under the category of "totally unfair" aswell?
ReplyDeleteBeing reduced from 100km targeting range to 17.6km (3 dampeners) sure can render a ship useless if it's not a fast one that can keep up with the Lachesis, which I've seen go 2000m/s without heat. The effect is the same, targeting isn't possible and missile boats swap to F.o.F. missiles in a desperate attempt.
Would just like to know what the difference is between training a honorable alt in a Lachesis and a dishonorable alt in a Falcon.
~~HoNoUr~~ is in the eye of the beholder.
ReplyDeleteSeriously though. ECM is overpowered, damps are not.
I've only ever had maybe 3-5 damp ships ruin solo fights for me, EVER.
On the other hand, ECM ruins about 20% of fights I have. Like this one last week :
http://www.madbombers.net/eveKB/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12435
(Percentage % figures I present in this blog may or may not be exaggerated or fabricated)
Love the rage in your killboard-comment, the Jerk Cartel would say it's tearalicious. Also props for answering on my comment that came very late on your blog post.
ReplyDeleteBut my point is whole another: you talk about the frequency of how often a Falcon ruined your day, compared to how often a Arazu/Lachesis did the same.
I asked however if a Lachesis/Arazu sensor-dampening you would still result in the same rage (roarrrrr) as being ECM-ed while your ship is being dismantled around you. After all the effect is very similar - you can no longer target your enemy (unless it's very close combat).
The reason I ask is ~~HoNoRabLe~~ because I have an alt/2nd account which I train from prober (finished) to recon ships, although it is still undecided which racial way he will go. Sensor-dampening or ECM? This is your opportunity to influence a character who may or may not defect to The Dark Side.
The scenario is this:
I have need for an alt to counter the much disliked heavy blobbing occuring in Amamake and adjecent systems. As a strictly solo pilot I cannot enjoy the luxuries of calling in reinforcements when my 1v1 enemy turns out to be not one, but many enemies.
It's easy to disengage in a MWD-frigate just warping to a distant safespot in-belt, but things become difficult when I want to enjoy my bigger ships that are close-combat brawlers. Once a scrambler and web is engaged in my Harbinger vs another BC there is no getting away, it's a nice and deadly 1v1. Then right after the point is applied in 9 of 10 cases the following happens: Overally enthusiastic pew pew with heated everything. The enemy figures a) he is not going to make it alone by himself or b) his friends really want in on the first killmail today.
If I were Lady Shaniqua I would simply kill them all. Since I'm not, I would use the small window of opportunity to lock the close-combat enemy and jam him in my Arazu/Falcon. See the irony here? I would use the Falcon in the exact opposite way it's normally being used, to defeat the evilz enemiez who have proven themselves dishonorable already! Fight fire with fire. The Falcon fighting for the good guys, who's really just one guy vs many. This is not a whine, this is an extension of my options.
EC-600 drones don't work as reliable, plus with the tanking problem of the Harbinger and sacrificing dps to solve it, I rely on Hammerhead II's for more dps. Secondly I would be in a roughly 7km orbit around the enemy if everything worked as planned, like that's going to happen, and then even extreme sensor dampening would reduce a BC to a minimum of 12km targeting range, meaning I still cannot flee from the angry mob with pitchforks. This is the situation where the Falcon would be my Batman.
If you have a valid argument I'm eager to hear it. And I'm actually sorry for turning this into an ECM boat discussion since you stated in your blog post that you didn't want to start yet another. If it helps in any way: this is actually my first, and I'm hardly interested in 60 different opinions on open forums which statistically say 50% yes 50% no.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02tCGleIdcw
ReplyDeleteConsidering that to be true for the moment, why would you blog-rant about Mad Bombers using Falcons in the first place?
ReplyDeletePanthe - her reply is justified considering how tedious your post was!
ReplyDeleteAnyway, main reason people hate falcons is that it cancels fights ( on a small gang scale ), it encourages low risk pvp, that's it, and it's undeniable, it's only really effective in small gangs, too
It sounds like you want a force multiplier, to some extent, you have some options besides a falcon
The best option is t3 links, but also one of the most expensive, SP and isk wise, a legion/tengu/loki can give you 50k point range, make your mach go 4k/s, or make your mael tank 4k instead of 2.3k, the difference is massive, and it rarely cancels fights, as the main benefits is just directly changing your ship's attributes
There are three different combinations, the legion and tengu mainly focuses on supporting toe to toe engagements, and the loki focuses on range tanking engagements, but the loki is also very helpful with on-grid guerilla tactics and even off grid guerilla tactics
Most expensive combination, and sometimes most effective, you can use is a Tengu + something with HG crystals, the difference is phenomenal, around 75% difference compared to the legion's 50% ish difference
Legion + active slaved hacs are pretty cool aswell http://genos.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=7619815
Loki + ships like mach/drake/cynabal is amazing, 6.6k/s cynabal with just lg snakes, with a 50k point, I guess loki does enforce lower risk pvp to some extent as you can disengage much easier as you can without links, if the other two enforces low risk pvp is up for you to decide, but they're all huge force multipliers
Other, more affordable options you can consider is dual boxing a max tank, and a max gank t1 ship, max gank vexor with a max tank thorax, or a max gank myrm + max tank harbinger can be very effective, and doesn't need a huge investment
Other ships that are fun to dual box is a inty/dramiel + bomber, can engage a lot of small disorganized gangs in 0.0 and able to kill most ratters with ease
Falcon is fine too, but I'd avoid trying to use it too many times, as people will adapt, and sometimes it changes the way you play, for the worse, I was hit by the ecm virus 2 1/2 years ago, I'd dual box a falcon alt for everything, and use it on anything and rarely die, fights back then was so boring
So you say I used too many words? Like in books and stuff?
ReplyDeleteSad panda face.
I'm really not into the tl;dr crowd.
Garmon, you wrote a lengthy reply and I dig it a lot, just so you know.
So thanks for the constructive input. I fancy the Loki's boni disruptor range/speed the most and is certainly more ballsy than a FALCAN, gives me alot of options to play around with in EFT.
Play EVE not EFT ... Garmon has spoken.
ReplyDeleteBeing forced down to a 17km lock range isn't bad at all compared to being perma jammed.. go solo and see how many fights end up within 17km, almost all of them.
ReplyDeleteEven less then 10km range with two arazu's still allows you to kill most close range tacklers and escape. Being perma jammed literally allows nothing.
If I'm a soloer and I'm perma jammed, I generally still can't mwd toward the falcon and kill it. I can do this to an arazu.
FOF shield boosting drakes FTW!
ReplyDelete